Thaksin's UK Asylum Application

[Naam Jai (?2008)]

Brits and others concerned about the issue, can write to Liam Byrne MP Minister of State for with responsibility for Asylum. His boss is Rt Hon Jacqui Smith MP Secretary of State for Home Department (Office) who is responsible for crime reduction,security and immigration, on, privateoffice.external@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk.

I have petitioned both that the Thaksins be extradited to Thailand to face the Court that demanded he attend to answer questions and Mrs Thaksin to face prison for a criminal offence committed and handed down, once the formal application for extradition is made by the Thai authorities..


It is inexcusable to run away from a Court of Law and is tantermount to accepting guilt. Thaksin and government must answer for the 250 students murdered in the 70's, corruption and for preventing natural and social justice in Thailand.

Britain must not be seen as the last refuge of a scoundrel

[sebastien]

Naam Jai, Law is not justice... There is an one extradition treaty between Thailand and UK.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat ... 911/9.html

The Asylum application have been studied by Thaksin's lawyers. He is a wealthy man... and will and should use his asset... It can take a long time for these proceedings. Thaksin's lawyers had probably made an EXTENSIVE research on article 2 and 5 regarding the extradition treaty if Asylum isn't giving.

However, article 3 says that's under the ABSOLUTE DISCRETION of the country. And UK will be in a difficult position.
Law is not justice. And politics is not justice. Laws is the direct application of politics...Laws should be flexible and ARE flexible. Maybe too much. It will be easier to extrade Mrs Thaksin as she is already been convincted.
Appeals can take years. Again, I'm talking about law.

Many years ago, a supreme Court judge of Canada, in his minority opinion (???), made the same comment about Canada vs USA. He didn't want Canada to become a place where convicted people or criminal from USA go to get salvation or avoid Death Penalty. I believe it was in the case of Kindler vs Canada. But this opinion was tossed away many years later. There was no corroboration (or scientific evidence) of criminal entries to Canada was made between the 2 differents laws and the reality of the countries. We could argue the same with UK...this case is EXCEPTIONAL and UK wouldn't be different than Spain, Italy, Canada, Netherlands, Germany or France. Much or less the same...

Are we thinking that people commiting crimes in Thailand (or presumed crimes) will seek Asylum in UK because of Thaksin?

[Naam Jai (?2008)]

Sebastian
Welcome !
Yes, the law is not justice,however Britons have always struggled to change class-bound laws and corrupt or class-bound procedures.
They have been successful too.
We all know the law is an ass and class based against working class.
Your point is taken, however readers should go to" www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/asylum "to see this Governments record on asylum and click the "Immigration and Asylum Statistics" tab to see what the Government has done.
I refer to my previous post and recommend expats who want to voice their opinion to do so by petitioning the Home Office ministers to support the Thai extradiction request.

[sebastien]

Asylum is a very important right. I believe the question of refugees became an international affair after the second world war. The problem is always where to trace the line. Who is really being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion, etc. Is that the case of Thaksin? persecuted?

I don't know much about asylum and UK, but I believe the situation is similar in many "western" countries.
In USA, they have problems with mexican immigration. (I understand immigration and asylum are different).
In Spain, with people from Africa. In France, with people for North Africa too, etc.
Do you remember the situation before the Berlin wall came down?

I've seen in the news (UK) a GAY irakian given asylum based on his sexual orientation...
But it was done before in The Netherlands.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/19/nether14428.htm

Canada is also quite famous for asylum. I remember few cases that went in the news, application on political asylum, after the Rwanda Genocide. Not only one case...many.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4362498.stm

Not sure if England is different...

[Naam Jai (?2008)]

Seb
Are you OK?
This thread is about Thaksin's UK Asylum application.
We know there is one law for the rich and another for the rest of us but lets see what this British Government who is supposed to be representing "Labour" do in this case. All I am saying is to let them know your point of view. That is OUR right.

[sebastien]

I'm perfectly fine, Thanks!
And I agree on the freedom of speech. You can send as many letters or emails as you want!
My point is that I don't think UK is very different from other western countries...

At the same time, if what you are saying is that the people should decide, I would be very much interested in your opinion
about the recent events in BKK.

Can you see the link? In that case, the PAD seems to say that the poor people elected Samak and he should go... the intellectuals know what is good... So, the rich, in Bangkok, are against Samak and Thaksin, and THEY had the majority at the election, what we called democraty.

I don't know Thai politics so well and won't debate. But it's ironic. Thanksin will be in Court for Asylum and extradition...
And the public here elected him...

Following your statement, what do you think, should the public influence judges? Or should the judicial branch be independant? That's an old debate and I believe they should be completely independant.

[KoratCat]

Following your statement, what do you think, should the public influence judges? Or should the judicial branch be independant? That's an old debate and I believe they should be completely independant.

I was referring to the judicial independence of western countries, following the message of Naam Jai and wasn't referring to Thailand, but the case of Thaksin in England.

Every judge is independent in his decision; only obliged to follow the law and his conscience.

But normally judges cannot do all the investigating into the matter themselves. They need assistants and expert advisors.

No western judicial system does have an organised "petition system". Nevertheless it should be accepted that anybody can offer advice to a court, as long as he does not obtrude his advice. It should be absolutely at the court's discretion, whether to use that as a resource for their judgment or not. It might be helpful! In any case the judges have the last word!

[Naam Jai (?2008)]

Thaksin has sold his share in Man City to the Arabs.
Do you think he is a worried man?

[KoratCat]

Thaksin has sold his share in Man City to the Arabs.
Do you think he is a worried man?

Maybe that's why the British Embassy in BKK cancelled the UK visas for him and his wife yesterday: they find him guilty of betraying british football now.

Seriously, it looks more like another clever move of Thaksin & friends. Since he was given honorary citizenship of the Bahamas, a member of the Commonwealth, he can easily get back into Britain with a passport from there. But most of all, he probably cannot be extradited to Thailand anymore; it seems the Bahamas don't even have an embassy in Thailand. Safe haven for criminals!

[KoratCat]

Home Office bars Thaksin Shinawatra from returning to Britain

Thaksin Shinawatra, the deposed Thai Prime Minister and former owner of Manchester City Football Club, has had his visa revoked by the British Government, two years after he fled to exile in London following a military coup.

An immigration officer at the British Embassy in Bangkok has also e-mailed airlines warning them not to allow Thaksin, 59, or his wife Potjaman, 51, both thought currently to be in China, to board flights to Britain after a Thai court last month sentenced him to two years in prison for corruption. According to media reports in Thailand, Thaksin was considering sanctuaries such as China, the Philippines and the Bahamas last night.

A Whitehall source confirmed yesterday that the Home Office had revoked the couple’s visas under rules banning entry to those convicted of offences that can carry a jail sentence under British law. The Thai Government confirmed that it had been informed – in fact, the only person who appeared not to have been notified was Thaksin himself. “I spoke with Thaksin’s secretary and he said that Thaksin still has not been notified by the British Government,” said Phongthep Thepkanjana, a spokesman for Thaksin.

Unconfirmed reports said that the Thaksins had been granted honorary citizenship by the Bahamas. The couple are said to be in China, where they are building a £5.5 million home.

Pracha Prosobdee, a member of the ruling pro-Thaksin People Power Party (PPP), told a Thai newspaper: “We don’t have to be concerned about Thaksin and his family. There are the Bahamas and several countries in Africa and around the world that will gladly welcome high-quality people like him.” The tycoon first fled to London after the military coup in 2006 and bought a £3 million penthouse flat in Kensington, West London, and a £4.5 million mansion in Weybridge, Surrey. He bought Manchester City in July last year and sold it in September to Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan of the Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment for £210 million. He retained the post of honorary president but the club’s board is believed to be considering stripping him of the title. There is also concern over his link to a 10 per cent holding of the club’s shares through associates.

Last month Thailand’s constitutional court convicted him in absentia of abusing his power as Prime Minister over his wife’s purchase in 2003 of a 772 million baht (£14 million) plot of land in central Bangkok. The court found that a government agency sold the property at Thaksin’s behest for a third of its market value.

The visa revocation puts an end to attempts by Thailand to extradite Thaksin from London. Indeed, it may have been a desire to avoid a complicated and politically charged extradition process that motivated the Home Office to take the procedurally much simpler step of revoking the visas – making Thaksin, at a stroke, someone else’s problem.

Thai prosecutors complained that the British decision would complicate the job of extraditing Thaksin. It will now be harder to keep track of him, and he could end up in a country with which Thailand does not have an extradition treaty.

Thaksin was the most popular, but also the most divisive, Prime Minister that Thailand has known. His village health-care schemes and programme of cheap loans won him the love of rural voters who had been ignored by the metropolitan political class, and carried him to three successive election victories. But many middle class urban Thais abhorred him, accusing him of using the vast wealth he acquired as a businessman to corrupt the country’s institutions and make it impossible to unseat him and his supporters.

Supporters of Thaksin still control Thailand’s Government, and this month more than 50,000 people attended a rally in Bangkok to hear him speak by telephone. Yesterday the Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat – Thaksin’s brother-in-law – said: “The revoking of the visas is the decision by the Government of Great Britain. We cannot criticise.”

TIMES online Nov. 10, 2008

Guess that makes it an official action of the British government and not looking like the solitary action of an embassy official anymore.

[KoratCat]

Extradition efforts continue

The prosecution will press for the extradition of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra from China to serve his jail term here when his whereabouts are established, a senior public prosecutor said yesterday.

Sirisak Tiyaphan, the director-general of the Office of the Attorney-General's International Affairs Department, said Thaksin's extradition can be requested as Thailand and China have an extradition treaty.

His comments came after reports that Thaksin and his wife, Khunying Potjaman, are now in China _ their United Kingdom visas cancelled.

The British government has revoked visas for the couple and told airlines not to carry the pair to any spot in the UK.

The cancelled visas are in their diplomatic passports.

British ambassador to Thailand Quinton Quayle refused to comment on the Shinawatra couple.

''I can assure you that in the UK every immigration case is treated according to the law, but I can't offer any comment about any individual,'' he said.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, who is Thaksin's brother-in-law, was also tight-lipped about the status of Thaksin's diplomatic passport.

He rejected speculation he would meet Thaksin in the Philippines during his official visit today and tomorrow.

Mr Somchai said the trip has long been planned as part of his visits as new prime minister to the capitals of other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Bangkok Post Nov. 10, 2008

[KoratCat]

Thaksin : UK will be sorry

Ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has lashed out at the UK for revoking his visa, saying the British government was not respecting its own democratic values.

In an exclusive interview with Arabian Business, to be published next Sunday, Thaksin said the UK would "feel sorrow" for revoking his visa.

However, Thaksin said he would only return if the people and the King of Thailand wanted him to go back.

He didn't mention the two-year jail term he is supposed to serve after the Supreme Court last month found him guilty of violating conflicts of interests laws.

"I think a lot depends on the power of the people. If they feel they are in hardship and they need me to help them, I will go back," he said.

"If the King feels I can be beneficial I will go back and he may grant me a royal pardon. If they don't need me and the King feels I can make no difference then I will stay here and do business."

The stinging criticism contracted his earlier statement that he chose to live in exile in UK because it was a "democratically mature" country.

Another irony was his choice of Dubai - which like Thailand is under constitutional monarchy - as a staging ground to preach democracy and attack a democratic model like UK.

"England must understand better, but unfortunately they are now busy with their own problems - so they forgot about democratic values," Thaksin said during an interview in Dubai.

Thaksin's UK visa was cancelled earlier this month following his conviction for corruption in Thailand. He had fled to the UK in 2006 following a military coup that removed him from power.

Thaksin vowed to return to Thailand at some stage, stating that he could bring confidence back to the country.

"The country is going down deeply. The confidence is not there. The trust amongst foreign community is not there. The poor people in rural areas are in difficulty," he said.

"With me at the helm I can bring confidence quickly back to Thailand. We have to find a mechanism under which I can go back, that is why I must tell you that I will go back into politics."

The full, exclusive interview with Shinawatra will be published in Arabian Business on Sunday Nov. 30, and from 10am on Thursday Nov. 27 online at ArabianBusiness.com.

The Nation Nov. 25, 2008

I hope The Nation was not just publishing nonsense again.

[KoratCat]

I hope The Nation was not just publishing nonsense again.

Seems to be real. There's the original story http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539193-e ... -out-at-uk
The Nation just added some of Sonthi's polemics.